Those Evil Atheists

0lastjud.jpg

I find most group blogs to be mere curiosities; a few friends blogging about generally unrelated matters with few common threads to hold it together. But while reading a discussion on preterism as an indication of the reshaping of early Christians’ view of Jesus in light of his failure to return (which is related to the idea of Jesus as a failed eschatological prophet) I came across an interesting blog called Philaletheia, “love of truth.”

Philaletheia is a blog with two authors. One is a devout Christian while the other is an avowed atheist. They blog together to promote dialogue between atheists and Christians. From their about section:

“Both are passionate about seeking truth in their own fashion. Both thought other truth-seekers might benefit from an open dialogue concerning truth-claims, how we know anything, and the nature of everything… One objective of this blog is to listen deeply and learn to talk to one another. Both authors will be contributing thoughts on certain topics, that the other author will be able to respond in the comments along with all other readers.”

An interesting concept, but does it work? Well, from what I’ve read so far the discussion is much more balanced (and intelligent) than many other websites. Typically you’ll find that blogs advocating one point of view will attract vehement critics from another worldview (I have had my share of these here, as well as being guilty myself), which while being entertaining and occasionally productive, often leaves much to be desired. Philaletheia seems to have something good going.

evil-atheist.jpg

Case in point: A post titled Can Atheists Be Good? Especially note the 60+ comments following. Of course, that assertion (that without the Judeo-Christian God there ultimately is no morality, no reason to refrain from raping or pillaging or whatnot, no motive to ‘do good’ has been made to me by many, including family).

It seems there are most agnostics/atheists than theists posting, but that is probably consistent with the blog’s readership in general, as liberal theists (such as the Christian author there) in some ways have more in common with agnostics. Nevertheless, here are some interesting comments (with no particular point other than stimulating thought):

“Neither god belief nor the lack of it, guarantees moral or ethical human behavior. People cooperate because it is mutually advantageous. We are also capable of natural feelings such as empathy, sympathy, remorse etc. Our natural abilities to empathize with other humans also form the basis of what we consider to be moral or ethical. There are rare people who are termed sociopathic, who apparently are incapable of these emotions, but for the vast majority of us these human emotions allow us, by understanding our own needs, to understand the needs of others.

“So, I think that morality has as much to do with our genetic origins than it has with any hierarchial supernatural construct that we have devised in an attempt to keep people in line. Primatologists like Frans de Waal have long argued that the roots of human morality are evident in social animals like apes and monkeys.”

A theist and a non-theist often arrive at the same conclusions reasoning from a different basis (biology and reason vs. authority and reason, etc.):

“Second, and interestingly, I don’t think that the use of reason or the motive of enlightened self-interest leads us all to the same place regarding what we might consider ethical. (You might make a parallel argument for Christianity.) So, for example, an atheist might reach many of the same ethical conclusions as his or her Christian counterparts–except that in the atheist’s case such conclusions might be reached as the outcome of reasoning, rather than out of deference to the prescriptions of a holy book.”

Another poster:

“And, again, you’re right that Christians use both reason and blind quoting of the literal text. Reasoning is often part of the arguement of the text itself. Often, biblical ethical arguments are intensely logical.”

An argument for group morality based on self-ownership:

“I own me, not you. You own you, not me. Therefore, morality is based on one fulfilling his own values. So basically anything is moral as long as it conforms to the self-ownership principle. But how does this allow me to identify immoral acts? Easy! Through the violation of the self-ownership principle: coercion. “If you try to force me to fulfill YOUR values, then you are being immoral. Theft, lies and violence are all attempts to force another to fulfill ones values. Consent = moral (because it conforms to self-ownership) and coercion = immoral (because it violates self-ownership).

Is this all relative? Nope. Why? Because no matter what you do, self-ownership is a truth that will reveal itself time and again when prodded.”

And by the same author:

“There are only two ways for two self-owning agents to interact: through consent, or through force. Consent is moral, force is immoral. Consent recognizes the sovereignty of the individual, coercion attempts to violate it.”

A response:

“With your argument for self-autonomy is an excellent one, I’d like to see it used more often in conjunction with an argument for preventing pain and suffering or an argument for an evolved moral code. While moral codes are fine and all, what I care about is that if you’re at the end of a football field, and a dog on the opposite end of the field is on fire, you’re running as fast as you can to save the dog. Under your argument, the dog can just burn. If we recognize that altruism and cooperation are beneficial for the individual, and not just the group, and may be an evolved mechanism, than saving the dog is the natural thing to do.”

And later on in the discussion, on the need for the creation of general codes of conducts because of a recognition of a biological tendencies to violate the rule of self-ownership in others:

“As, human beings, we are conscious of our propensities, so we create codes of conduct. These codes of conduct do not deny the existence of these propensities, (which we may find immoral or unfavorable) but these codes seek to formulate situations and circumstances when such behaviors are considered favorable.

“It is through the creation of these codes of conduct that we seek to place these proclivities within a human societal construct which will ‘benefit the hive’ or ‘benefit the group.’”

On the inherent bias of the question, Can Atheists Be Good?:

“If I framed the question as “Can theists be good?” The question would also have an inbuilt bias.”

On the benefit of preserving (or by extension, improving) another’s life:

“It is mutually beneficial for me to value the existence of others in the same way that I value my own existence, as I can increase my own chances of survival by being cognizant of the value that other people also attach to their lives.”

Thoughts?

Advertisements

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: